MarcoM

  • Mensagens: 487
Para não abrir um novo tópico vim desenterrar este...

A ser verdade é a isto que se chama sair o tiro pela culatra à Boeing
Citação
Bombardier to partner with Airbus on CSeries program
CSeries headquarters will remain in Montreal area, 2nd assembly line will be set up at Airbus plant in Alabama


Bombardier Inc. announced Monday it has sold a majority stake in its CSeries passenger jet business to European aerospace giant Airbus for no cost.

The move comes after lacklustre sales and after the U.S. Commerce Department imposed harsh duties on Bombardier, charging the Montreal-based company is selling the CSeries planes in the U.S. below cost and receiving government subsidies.

The Commerce Department recently announced it would impose an 80 per cent duty on top of duties of nearly 220 per cent. The case has been a win for U.S.-based rival Boeing.

Boeing has said it didn't move early enough against Airbus subsidies in the 1970s. Airbus is now is a global giant.

Bombardier exploring options for aerospace businesses, including sale: Bloomberg
Canada vs. Boeing: How the fight with aerospace giant began, on Pennsylvania Ave
The move by Bombardier could possibly circumvent duties being imposed on the CSeries. The CSeries headquarters will remain in the Montreal area, but a second assembly line for the 100- to 150-seat plane will be set up at Airbus's facility in Mobile, Ala., so the plane can be sold in the United States.

Airbus chief executive officer Tom Enders said an aircraft produced at a U.S. Airbus facility would not be subject to duties under the pending U.S. investigation.

Enders said the acquisition extends the company's product offering into the fast-growing 100- to 150-seat market sector. The current Airbus A320, a rival for the CSeries, is for 180 passengers or more and Airbus hasn't sold an A320 in three years.

Notícia completa em: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bombardier-airbus-c-series-1.4357567

LONG LIVE THE CSERIES!
« Última modificação: 10 de Julho 2018, 21:29:34 por AndreMP »


iloper

  • Mensagens: 1474
Grande movimento do consorcio

nunopinheiro

  • Mensagens: 2467
Aparentemente um negocio da China para a airbus, que fica com 50.1% do CS não tem de meter um cêntimo com direito de compra de todo o programa dentro de 7 anos. e a bombardier ainda tem de eventualmente la meter 300 milhões....

Mas são boas notícias o CS é um bonito aparelho era pena que tivesse uma morte prematura...

Next Embraer "vende" E2 a Boeing...
Comon type rating para o CS com o A320...
Make some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Adob

  • Mensagens: 97
Nunca encostar um inimigo no canto. A Boeing devia saber isso.

O produto CS é óptimo, a Bombardier apenas precisava de força para lutar no duopólio. 

Todo o processo -via proteccionismo bacoco da administração Trump- para impedir a conclusão do negócio da Delta foi um autêntico tiro no pé.

nunopinheiro

  • Mensagens: 2467
Também não foi assim tanto, livraram-se de um competidor e trocaram-no pelo do costume...

Quem realmente perdeu foi a Embraer...

JB

  • Mensagens: 107
CSeries headquarters will remain in Montreal area, 2nd assembly line will be set up at Airbus plant in Alabama

Alabama em particular e os EUA em geral devem ter perdido muito...
JB

Flyz

  • Mensagens: 1128
Wow, isto muda o paradigma do embraer completamente...uma coisa é estar num mercado nicho com um concorrente fraco(produto bom mas caro) outra coisa e de repente estar a lutar conte um gigante de aviação que oferece garantias etc etc

AndreMP

  • Moderador
  • Mensagens: 950
Caros,

Tendo em conta que o outro tópico já era antigo, não tinha actividade e que este assunto está a gerar alguma discussão, foi criado um novo tópico.

Já agora, deixo aqui mais alguns detalhes por parte da Bombardier:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.binc-20171016-airbus-and-bombardier-announce-c-series-partnershi.bombardiercom.html

nunopinheiro

  • Mensagens: 2467
Flyz yeap, o pessoal ta preocupado com a Boeing mas quem vai sofrer a seria é a Embraer, se em breve a Airbus trabalhar em sistemas partilhados entre o cs e o A320 (tenho a certeza de que o fará) faz do cs muito mais competitivo para companhias com airbus, ver TAP...

AndreMP

  • Moderador
  • Mensagens: 950
Já agora:

Citação
But while the two aircraft lines are distinct, he signals that Airbus will aim to bring the two designs closer.

He says there is "strong potential" to develop, "step-by-step", a more harmonised single-aisle range with "higher commonality" – taking advantage of the technology and design incorporated into the CSeries and bringing further cost savings.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-envisions-harmonising-cseries-with-a320-442227/

pedferre

  • Mensagens: 255
Bem fazendo as contas de cabeça... a Embraer também tem uma linha de montagem em territorio europeu (Portugal), tal como a Airbus tem nos EUA, pelo que poderá ter alguma lógica no futuro a Boeing entrar também na Embraer (E2).
Ainda pode ficar a ganhar a fábrica de Évora, por acaso a Boeing está apenas localizada nos EUA, a Airbus ainda tem a fábrica no Alabama e na China.
« Última modificação: 17 de Outubro 2017, 15:44:05 por pedferre »


Flyz

  • Mensagens: 1128
Pois mas a embraer não vai "doar" metade da empresa a boeing ...

MarcoM

  • Mensagens: 487
Bem fazendo as contas de cabeça... a Embraer também tem uma linha de montagem em territorio europeu (Portugal), tal como a Airbus tem nos EUA, pelo que poderá ter alguma lógica no futuro a Boeing entrar também na Embraer (E2).
Ainda pode ficar a ganhar a fábrica de Évora, por acaso a Boeing está apenas localizada nos EUA, a Airbus ainda tem a fábrica no Alabama e na China.

A Boeing também vai abrir um completion centre para o 737 na China
(notícia com cerca de 1 ano)
Citação
Boeing, Comac to open 737 completion facility in China's Zhoushan
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Boeing and Chinese planemaker Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd (COMAC) [CMAFC.UL] have signed an agreement to open a Boeing 737 completion facility in the coastal city of Zhoushan.

The deal, signed at a ceremony on Friday, follows an agreement between the two companies inked in September last year to open a center to install interiors, paint liveries and deliver 737 aircraft to Chinese customers.

A Boeing spokesman confirmed the signing to Reuters, which was reported by CAAC News, a publication run by China’s aviation regulator.

The facility is Boeing’s first 737 completion plant outside the United States and comes as the U.S. planemaker and its European rival Airbus fiercely compete for plane orders in China. Airbus already has two plants in China.
Fonte:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-china-plant/boeing-comac-to-open-737-completion-facility-in-chinas-zhoushan-idUSKCN12S1FM

Engraçado que a notícia que me aparece a seguir é esta

Citação
Midnight in Toulouse: How CSeries deal shook status quo
TOULOUSE, France (Reuters) - Two years ago, Airbus Chief Executive Tom Enders halted negotiations to buy Canada’s CSeries program at midnight after the talks with Bombardier leaked to Reuters. On Tuesday, he performed a U-turn by backing a similar deal after all - again at dead of night.
The nocturnal gymnastics by Europe’s largest aerospace group stunned the aircraft industry which had been riveted for weeks by a trade dispute between Boeing and Bombardier that threatened to hit the CSeries with large U.S. import fees.

Now, the 110-130-seat jet will be built for U.S. airlines at Airbus’s Alabama assembly plant, circumventing any import penalties in a move that apparently caught Boeing off guard.

Analysts say that potentially turns the CSeries from an attack on U.S. jobs, as portrayed in Boeing’s complaint, to a job creator in a key Republican state, though Boeing termed the move a “questionable deal” between two of its subsidized competitors.

The deal also signals the end of Airbus efforts to promote the A319, its smallest jet which has not posted a sale in years.

“The stunning Airbus-Bombardier partnership for the CSeries program guarantees the future of the new airplane, kills off the A319 and thrusts a big stick up Boeing’s tailpipe,” Leeham Co analyst Scott Hamilton wrote.

Strategically, however, the move extends well beyond the noise of Boeing’s spat with Bombardier and could trigger a riposte from other planemakers, including Boeing itself.

Commercial aerospace has four main powers dominated by Airbus and Boeing, which share the market above 150 seats.

Brazil’s Embraer and Canada’s Bombardier compete between 100 and 150 seats as well as in the market for smaller regional jets.

But China and Russia lead a field of new entrants vying to break into the $125 billion a year commercial market, along with smaller regional players such as Japan.

BOEING-EMBRAER ALLIANCE?

Tuesday’s deal starts to rearrange the deck in a move that many have been expecting since former Airbus head Louis Gallois warned six years ago that the market was getting too crowded.

In particular, it could drive Boeing closer to Embraer, with which it already cooperates. Embraer’s E2 jet is one of the main potential losers from the CSeries deal.

“The world has two top-tier airframers, and two second-tier airframers,” said Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia.

“Airbus and Bombardier are now allies. This greatly increases the likelihood of a stronger Boeing-Embraer alliance as a response.”

Such a move has long been contemplated in private.

The CSeries benefits from a new type of efficient engine. Its launch in 2008 eventually prompted Airbus to put the same generation of engine on its own A320 to protect its main profit source.

That in turn forced Boeing to dump plans for an all-new single-aisle plane in 2011 and opt for a makeover of its best-selling 737 with similar engines, to be known as 737 MAX.

But sitting in Boeing’s filing cabinets are designs for an all-new jet that would have involved intense collaboration with Embraer, according to two people familiar with the project. A template for closer co-operation therefore already exists.

Boeing and Embraer declined to comment.

The two companies already work on projects including runway safety and alternative jet fuels. Their partnership has intensified in recent years to include Boeing’s commitment to joint sales and support of Embraer’s KC-390 military aircraft.

The Airbus-Bombardier deal also marks a pause in strategic advances made by China, widely seen as the most serious future competitor to Airbus and Boeing.

Debt-laden Bombardier had been in talks with China as it waited for Airbus to come around to the CSeries.

“China has missed out on a huge opportunity to advance its aims by not getting the CSeries,” an industry strategist said.

PRODUCT STRATEGY

The deal also has potentially far-reaching consequences for product strategy and technology at Airbus and Boeing.

A person close to Bombardier said Airbus would aim to pressure the key Boeing 737 MAX 8 model by squeezing it from below with the CSeries and from above with the popular A321neo. Some critics say it could also develop a larger CSeries.

But critics say airlines don’t want such a patchwork of products. The deal clashes with one of the core philosophies in the Airbus brochure to date - a compatible family of aircraft where pilots and maintenance staff can be redeployed easily.

Airbus will also get its hands on promising technology.

Workers in Belfast, whose jobs have been at the center of a political storm over the Boeing-Bombardier dispute, are using innovative wing production techniques that may now be deployed by Airbus for future jets.

That could increase tensions at the World Trade Organisation where Boeing has battled with Airbus for years over government loans. Bombardier received such UK funding in Belfast, meaning recent trade friction may shift to the larger stage at the WTO.
Fonte:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-airbus-strategy-analysis/midnight-in-toulouse-how-cseries-deal-shook-status-quo-idUSKBN1CM0T6

iloper

  • Mensagens: 1474
e o passo lógico...

A embraer não pode ficar atrás

A Bombardier ganha uma capacidade comercial muito maior que 50% da empresa em dinheiro não lhe comprava... E só venderam a parte do programa CS... Os outros ficam Bombardier segundo me parece

nunopinheiro

  • Mensagens: 2467
Sim mas o que sobra na bombardier aviação pouco mais é que os private jets os trubopps já perderam a guerra com o ATR... Eles apostaram tudo no CS e perderam em grande, a airbus fica com 50% gratiz e tem direito de compra do resto ao preço em bolsa se resultar, nem sequer é suposto pagar a divida, é um negocio da China, e muito melhor do que o que se falava a uns anos atrás.

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